Friday, July 04, 2008

America 2008: Red, Black and Blue

Originally published at Think.MTV.com

The Fourth of July is and has always been a holiday of confliction for me and for many African Americans. The very first “self-evident truth” of the Declaration of Independence – “That all men are created equal” – was a hypocritical mockery of my enslaved ancestors when that hallowed document was signed in 1776. Here we are 232 years later, and even with Barack Obama’s Democratic primary victory, Black people still wonder, “Are we really free?”

In deciding what I was going to write for my weekly Street Team ’08 report, Frederick Douglass’ immortal speech “The Meaning of July Fourth to the Negro”, delivered in 1852, immediately came to mind…

The rich inheritance of justice, liberty, prosperity and independence, bequeathed by your fathers, is shared by you, not by me. The sunlight that brought light and healing to you, has brought stripes and death to me. This Fourth July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice, I must mourn.

But, I hesitated. First of all, white folks get upset when Black people talk about race and discrimination in America. An uncomfortable silence fills the room, and many people just stop listening. We ignore the economic and social disparities that still exist between whites and Blacks because no one wants to talk about the obvious racial origins of these problems.

And I’ll admit, Black folks can get defensive when the discussion turns to the racism that we still feel here. The constant criticism is that Blacks sometimes “play the race card” when no discrimination exists. In the end, many of us are guilty of spending too much time fighting the ghosts of racism and not enough time taking advantage of the real opportunities that do present themselves in this nation.

But then I thought about it… There’s a Black guy running for president, and race has been a constant issue throughout the campaign. I’m also the only Black male working on MTV’s Street Team this year. Now is DEFINITELY the time for me to talk about racism in America!

The first African slaves were brought to these shores in the year 1619. The U.S. Constitution was ratified in 1787. Slavery ended in 1865. The fact that it’s 2008 and we are just now seeing an African American candidate with a serious shot at winning the White House shows both how much and how little progress America has made over the past 400 years.

There’s a lot of history that we could talk about here. Most of our high school and college history classes glossed over Reconstruction, the period between 1866 and 1877 when Blacks in America were freed from slavery, gained considerable political power and were then betrayed by the government and thrown back into the virtual bondage of the Jim Crow/segregation era.

But who wants to talk about history? Ours is the first generation to experience racial integration in the United States. We all went to school together. We grew up seeing Black artists’ and white artists’ videos on MTV. Most of us don’t know and don’t care about the legend that then CBS Records president Walter Yetnikoff threatened to boycott MTV if they didn’t play Michael Jackson’s “Billie Jean” video in 1983 at a time when the young network just didn’t air videos by Black artists. MTV founder Les Garland denies this story, but that’s beside the point.

The point is we’re living in a 21st century America where all citizens legally enjoy the same rights. In this environment we can have Oprah Winfrey AND Ellen Degeneres. We can have T.I. AND Justin Timberlake. We can have Barack Obama AND John McCain.

So why do the subjects of color, race, ethnicity and equality still cause such a stir? How can Bill Clinton go from being called “America’s first Black president” to being called a racist for his comments about Obama during the Democratic primary season? Why would a vendor at the Texas GOP convention sell buttons that say, “If Obama is president, will we still call it the White House?”

Because this is politics, baby, and race still divides America. Young people can claim that it’s just the old folks who have these issues, but a lot of white kids still wonder whether the Black person they hang out with is “a nigger” or “my nigga”. High school students in Jena, Louisiana still get into fights over the right to sit under a tree and the right to hang a noose from one of its branches.

Race is on the ballot in three states in 2008 as Arizona, Nebraska and Missouri vote on whether to ban affirmative action programs or not. Michigan voters banned affirmative action in the state in 2006 after two high profile Supreme Court rulings involving the University of Michigan. Michigan’s history, it should be noted, is that it had the highest membership of the Ku Klux Klan outside the South during the height of that organization. My town of Westland is the headquarters of the American Nazi Party.

Opponents of affirmative action point to Obama’s success as evidence that the initiatives are no longer needed. Obama and others are proof that all minorities are finally considered equal by all Americans.

But if this is the case, why are there disproportionately more Blacks in prison than whites based on percentage of population? Why are there so few Black CEOs of major corporations? Why are Black test scores so much lower than the scores for white students? Why is there so much inequality?

The answer to most of these questions lies in the history of racial discrimination in the country. After 232 years, African Americans are still working to unchain ourselves from the shackles of slavery and segregation. All of us, no matter the race, are still struggling to shed our own racial prejudices.

When it comes down to it, America has made a lot of progress, but we still haven’t overcome our history. On this conflicted Fourth of July I can honestly say that all men – and women – are created equal. When will we learn to treat each other that way?

“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” – Dr. Martin Luther King

48 Comments:

Blogger Paul Hue said...

" My town of Westland is the headquarters of the American Nazi Party."

I never understand this oft-made point by yours means. The organization has to have its headquarters somewhere. So it's here, where you and I live. That makes two witnesses (me *and* you) who have in 10 years never seen any evidence of it. Had you not discovered this claimed info on the internet, you never would have imagined that you are living in the Nazi party's HQ town.

Two of your friends, a married black couple, just this week moved from the Nazi party's HQ town in part because too many thuggy black folks are appearing! What a sad commentary on the strength of the American Nazi party, when respectable black families are moving because too they are starting to see too many baggy-panted young black males roaming around!

July 11, 2008 10:32 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"Why are there disproportionately more Blacks in prison than whites based on percentage of population?"

Well, let's examine the possibilities:

1. Black-run police forces in the largest US cities, and white-run forces in white areas, are letting white crime perpetrators off, and jailing only black perpetrators, including innocent black people. In addition, black and white crime victims are lying about the perceived "race" of the perpetrators.

2. Too many white people are behaving like racists (which figures into 1 above).

3. Too many blacks are choosing to commit crimes.

July 11, 2008 10:36 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

On this conflicted Fourth of July I can honestly say that all men – and women – are created equal. When will we learn to treat each other that way?

“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” – Dr. Martin Luther King

... except when they apply to the University of Michigan and Harvard.

July 11, 2008 10:38 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

" High school students in Jena, Louisiana still get into fights over the right to sit under a tree and the right to hang a noose from one of its branches."

And makes relentless national news because it represents such a rare occurrence. Let's survey all 1,000 of our current black friends and see how many have experienced something like that in the past 25 years.

July 11, 2008 10:40 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

Of your enslaved ancestors, are you only refering to the black ones enslaved by whites? What about your white ancestors enslaved, raped, butchered, and robbed by other whites? Or the black ones experiencing the same by other blacks?

And of course you do realize that some of your ancestors were white slavers. In any case, those evil white bastards who founded this country were not unique because they enslaved anybody. You had just as many black ancestors ancestors who where also bastards in that regard. What makes those white bastards unique are reasons such as:

1. We can document that many of them publicly acknowledged that their practice of slavery was wrong.

2. That a good chunk of their contemporary fellow whites refused to own slaves, and attempted to end the practice.

3. That they founded the first nation ever which set the foundation for ending slavery, and recognizing now racial inequality -- indeed, it demanded that this should happen.

Please explain to me where on earth in 1776 where slavery existed did leaders debate the practice? Maybe you would prefer to celebrate the founding of... what nation, exactly, existing today or ever, would you instead prefer to celebrate?

July 11, 2008 10:44 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"it’s 2008 and we are just now seeing an African American candidate with a serious shot at winning the White House shows both how much and how little progress America has made over the past 400 years."

Please provide an example of any other nation that has made remarkably more progress than the US, so that if you resided there you would celebrate the anniversary of its founding unreservedly.

July 12, 2008 1:39 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"Opponents of affirmative action point to Obama’s success as evidence that the initiatives are no longer needed. Obama and others are proof that all minorities are finally considered equal by all Americans."

No opponent of AA believes that "all minorities are finally considered equal by all Americans."

And what, again, exactly, is the justification and rationale for AA? Is it to right past wrongs, or to level the playing field against current discrimination?

If it's to level the playing field, then you mean to tell me AA must live until "all minorities are finally considered equal by all Americans"? Well, that'll be never. There will never be a perfect world. And who anyway would make the judgment as to when this goal has materialized?

July 12, 2008 1:44 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

" Most of our high school and college history classes glossed over Reconstruction."

Today's public schools gloss over just about everything worthwhile to know about. That includes all those dead white guys who wrote and argued about the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and its Bill of Rights. Nor do the schools explain about all the black-on-black and arab-on-black slavery all over Africa and Arabia at the time, continuing well after the US Civil War, and even into the 1900s.

All of this information considered within the context of each other should have the effect of inspiring today's educated American kids and adults of all "races" to cheer the Forth of July.

July 12, 2008 1:49 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"The Fourth of July is and has always been a holiday of confliction for me and for many African Americans."

Have you ever considered evaluating sociological, historical, and cultural matters merely as a human being, and without assigning yourself to a "race" category and figuring that into your analysis?

July 12, 2008 1:51 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

That the American Nazi Party is headquartered in Westland sheds a negative light on some of the people who live in my town, and speaks to the types of individuals who live there.

The same could be said if Amnesty International or the Vatican set up shop in Westland. It speaks to the type of people that are there.

My revolutionary media company, Eclipse America Productions, is also headquartered in Westland, so that speaks to the diversity of Westland. The presence of the Nazi party shows there are some people who don't like that diversity.

That some Black folks left Westland because they are seeing too many saggy-panted Black males there speaks volumes about that couple and their own view of the city. I have no problem with the diversity of the saggy-panted Black kids just as I have no problem with the saggy-panted white kids who have lived there for years. I also have no problem with the American Nazi Party living there. I just wish I knew who the members were. Knowing who your neighbors are and what their beliefs are is much better than not knowing.

July 12, 2008 2:15 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"1. Black-run police forces in the largest US cities, and white-run forces in white areas, are letting white crime perpetrators off, and jailing only black perpetrators, including innocent black people. In addition, black and white crime victims are lying about the perceived "race" of the perpetrators.

2. Too many white people are behaving like racists (which figures into 1 above).

3. Too many blacks are choosing to commit crimes."

I would answer "TRUE" to all of the above.

July 12, 2008 2:16 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"... except when they apply to the University of Michigan and Harvard."

No. They are judged by their color before they apply to Michigan and Harvard and after they are either accepted or denied at those universities. They are also judged by the cultural bias of their entrance exams.

July 12, 2008 2:18 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"And makes relentless national news because it represents such a rare occurrence. Let's survey all 1,000 of our current black friends and see how many have experienced something like that in the past 25 years."

Thank heaven, and thank the people who accomplished so much during the civil rights era.

Thank heaven more people are teaching their children that racism is stupid.

Too bad there is still the existence of racism and that it is being taught to your children.

Too bad that the American Nazi Party and others have gone underground so we don't know their intentions.

July 12, 2008 2:27 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

First of all, I'm not aware of there being any white slaves in the United States in 1776. That white slaves did exist and that Blacks enslaved Blacks is well known.

However, many of the men who wrote and signed the Declaration were slave owners. That some of their neighbors refused to own slaves, but allowed the practice to continue speaks to the political will that existed in this country at that time. That the Constitution included compromises designed to maintain (and contain) the institution of slavery speaks to the moral and political will of the people of that time.

That George Bush has committed numerous crimes but Congress is unwilling to impeach speaks volumes about the moral and political of the people of this time. That Congress would change the laws governing torture and domestic spying also speaks about this.

July 12, 2008 2:37 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"Please explain to me where on earth in 1776 where slavery existed did leaders debate the practice?"

Everywhere that he institution existed. It was debated all over. This is why it was ended in the UK a full 30 years before it ended in the US. Other nations are examples as well. The US was not unique in that regard. It was the freedom of white aristocrats from a monarch that was unique.

July 12, 2008 2:39 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"Maybe you would prefer to celebrate the founding of... what nation, exactly, existing today or ever, would you instead prefer to celebrate?"

I am conflicted about the founding of America, but I am here. I recognize the opportunities that I have because I am here. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like for this flawed to be better. Yes, I realize other nations are flawed as well. I don't live in those other nations. I'd like to improve the place where I live.

July 12, 2008 2:48 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"Please provide an example of any other nation that has made remarkably more progress than the US, so that if you resided there you would celebrate the anniversary of its founding unreservedly."

You're twisting my point. My saying that I would have liked for America to have made more progress has nothing to do with any other nation.

Are you saying that America is perfect?

July 12, 2008 2:56 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"And what, again, exactly, is the justification and rationale for AA? Is it to right past wrongs, or to level the playing field against current discrimination?"

AA is supposed to help with both, understanding that it isn't an end all be all and won't be a perfect solution.

AA is not a perfect system, and it should be reformed and fixed, but I don't think it should be ended. There is still too much evidence of discrimination in the workplace.

July 12, 2008 3:02 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"Today's public schools gloss over just about everything worthwhile to know about. That includes all those dead white guys who wrote and argued about the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and its Bill of Rights."

You have to admit there is a lot more coverage of just Thomas Jefferson and George Washington than of Reconstruction period. If you don't you're delusional.

July 12, 2008 3:03 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

Reconstruction after the civil war is a much more important subject if one is to understand the basis for segregation and racism in America than Black on Black slavery in Africa or white on white slavery in Europe.

July 12, 2008 3:05 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"Have you ever considered evaluating sociological, historical, and cultural matters merely as a human being, and without assigning yourself to a "race" category and figuring that into your analysis?"

Absolutely. That is my consideration most of the time. I only consider race when I am considering race.

July 12, 2008 3:06 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

Nadir: In vast swath of Africa and Arabia in 1776 were slavery constituted a way of life, were was it debated? Was it only in the European nations where leaders debated this ancient and despicable practice? If so, why do you not celebrate the founding of the US as marking just as much as step forward in the march of civilization as Egypt, China, Persia, Phoenicia, Mesopotamia, Islam, India, and all the other slave-owning societies that advanced civilization (albeit without debating slavery or mandating its eradication)?

July 12, 2008 9:10 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"Reconstruction after the civil war is a much more important subject if one is to understand the basis for segregation and racism in America than Black on Black slavery in Africa or white on white slavery in Europe."

But what about understanding other things? Such as what made the US special and important in 1775 to the forward march of civilization? And in setting the path for black folks eventually possessing freedom and prosperity?

Understanding Reconstruction outside of the context of what else was concurrently occurring in the world leaves a big hole in relevant information. Are you proposing excluding African and Arabian history? Or simply white washing it?

July 12, 2008 9:15 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

You really believe that:

- Black and white cops are letting white criminals slide?

- Black and white crime victims are lying about their perception of the "race" of their perpetrator?

- White and black judges and juries are letting white criminals off the hook?

But: crime stats are down, while arrests and convictions are disproportionately black. If blacks and whites are making roughly the same choices to commit crimes, why are whites taking advantage of these phenomena, and boosting crime rates?

Do you believe that Asian-Americans are making the same crime choices as whites and blacks?

Why are white men disproportionately accused and convicted of DWI, mass murder, and serial murder, than any other "race"? Why doesn't this racist system not cover for white men in these areas as well?

Why are black and white men both more likely to get accused of and convicted of street crimes than black or white women, or Asian men?

Detroit has far and away the highest crime rates in the metro area. Are white folks committing these crimes?

The answers all of these questions are clear to me: the crime stats accurately indicate the relative choices of the various "races" and genders.

July 12, 2008 9:21 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"You have to admit there is a lot more coverage of just Thomas Jefferson and George Washington than of Reconstruction period. If you don't you're delusional."

Somehow, my daughter knows nothing about either. Just ask her.

July 12, 2008 9:23 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"That the American Nazi Party is headquartered in Westland sheds a negative light on some of the people who live in my town, and speaks to the types of individuals who live there. The same could be said if Amnesty International or the Vatican set up shop in Westland. It speaks to the type of people that are there."

Except that AI and the Catholic Church are enormous organizations with large offices and lots of officials. Please inform my how many Nazis live in Westland, and why they haven't acted against us. Westland is also the HQ of our program for black high school kids.

July 12, 2008 9:25 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"I have no problem with the saggy-panted white kids who have lived there for years."

I have just as much of a problem with both; so does that couple that moved. These characteristics indicate to me and that couple danger signals. Presumably the Nazis don't care about the white kids dressing that way. In any case, what does it say about the single nazi who blogs from his basement constituting the Nazi US HQ that he won't move, when our couple friends did?

July 12, 2008 9:29 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"Too bad that the American Nazi Party and others have gone underground so we don't know their intentions."

They have gone underground to the point of approximating non-existence and absolute irrelevance. Please provide one scrap of evidence to indicate that there exists in Westland more than a single guy.

July 12, 2008 9:31 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"It was the freedom of white aristocrats from a monarch that was unique."

What? Have you read the US constitution? It provides freedom to every MAN. It does nothing about slavery except acknowledge its existence in assigning electoral votes and Reps. And it does not even define slaves, so nobody by any classification is inherently a slave. One of the many special aspects of this document is that it abolished aristocracy. All that was legally necessary to abolish slavery was to have judges recognize black men as men. That's one hell of an advance.

July 12, 2008 9:35 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"Understanding Reconstruction outside of the context of what else was concurrently occurring in the world leaves a big hole in relevant information. Are you proposing excluding African and Arabian history? Or simply white washing it?"

It has already been excluded and/or whitewashed in American history studies.

You're not making a point.

July 13, 2008 11:22 AM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"If so, why do you not celebrate the founding of the US as marking just as much as step forward in the march of civilization as Egypt, China, Persia, Phoenicia, Mesopotamia, Islam, India, and all the other slave-owning societies that advanced civilization (albeit without debating slavery or mandating its eradication)?"

How do you know slavery wasn't debated in those societies? Are you a scholar on Phoenician history?

July 13, 2008 11:24 AM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"But: crime stats are down, while arrests and convictions are disproportionately black. If blacks and whites are making roughly the same choices to commit crimes, why are whites taking advantage of these phenomena, and boosting crime rates?"

Police patrol those communities more often. If the government used more of its powers to police white collar crime, we wouldn't have Enrons or the current financial crisis that is occurring.

Why can an Enron executive steal from thousands of his countries shareholders and get a shorter prison sentence than someone who gets caught with a small amount of drugs and has endangered no one but themselves?

The way communities are policed has a lot to do with the rate of arrests.

July 13, 2008 11:28 AM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"Detroit has far and away the highest crime rates in the metro area. Are white folks committing these crimes?"

Detroit has far and away fewer jobs and more poverty than the rest of the metro area. People are left with the choice of stealing to survive. Without opportunity, they have to make a way any way they can. I don't condone it, but I understand it.

Why do you equate poverty with race? In poor rural areas white folks commit more of the crimes that Black folks. Why do you equate crime with race?

July 13, 2008 11:32 AM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"How do you know slavery wasn't debated in those societies? Are you a scholar on Phoenician history?"

I have read histories about all these civilizations and found no evidence of debating, much less eliminating, slavery. That's the best I can do. Perhaps you have some evidence that ancient Pheonicians, or national / regional leaders in Africa and Arabia did so during the 1700s and 1800s? I know that coastal African leaders loudly protested Britain's banning of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, and that the trans-Saharan slave trade continued unabated.

Seems to me that Washington and Jefferson advanced civilization just as much by founding the US as as did the Egyptians, Summarians, Indians, Chinese, Arabians, Persians and others did with their various advances in math, writing, agriculture, architecture, and many other contributions.

July 13, 2008 11:35 AM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"People are left with the choice of stealing to survive. Without opportunity, they have to make a way any way they can."

I wish you were kidding, but you are not. You really believe that those people committing those crimes do so because they have no choice. It escapes me how to convince you otherwise. You and I have equally extensive experience over our lives with these people.

It amazes me that some such as us reach the conclusion that you have, but they do. In fact, I used to have that same conclusion, but I revised it 180 degrees.

Many of the crimes that these people commit have nothing to do with feeding, clothing, or housing themselves, for one thing. Fighting and vandalism and drug consumption contribute nothing to those goals.

July 13, 2008 11:39 AM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"I have just as much of a problem with both; so does that couple that moved. These characteristics indicate to me and that couple danger signals."

That indicates elitist and classist attitudes from you and that couple. To me, it's an indication of how young people dress. They learned it from the capitalist media who is trying to sell a certain lifestyle. That style was copied from prisoners who weren't allowed to wear belts in prison.

But the fact that you, that couple, nor the children who dress that way don't know the origin of the style isn't the point. Teenagers are copying the rappers they admire. The fact that you and that couple don't understand that just means you're old and bourgeois. That you equate the style to race shows your ignorance.

I don't like the style, and I wouldn't wear it, but I understand that young people have their own culture. You would rather they dress like you, but I don't like the way your mama dress you either.

July 13, 2008 11:40 AM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"Police patrol those communities more often."

To the contrary, the high-crime areas receive scant police attention, as desperate and responsible Detroit residents will attest.

"Why can an Enron executive steal from thousands of his countries shareholders and get a shorter prison sentence than someone who gets caught with a small amount of drugs and has endangered no one but themselves?"

First of all, I support you effort to legalize drug selling and using, as you know. The Enron exec can purchase much better attorneys, which is why he gets off easier than they guys that cause you, me, and your wife to lock our doors.

July 13, 2008 11:42 AM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"One of the many special aspects of this document is that it abolished aristocracy."

How so? Originally you couldn't even vote if you weren't a property owner.

But that doesn't matter. You're a supporter of George Bush who says the Constitution is just a piece of paper. What do you care about the Constitution?

July 13, 2008 11:44 AM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

If you doubt that police patrol high crime areas far less than low crime areas, go drive crazy at 10pm Friday in Northville, then try your experiment in any high-crime area of Detroit. Have a white friend (besides me!) do this, so you can't blame "racial profiling".

Speaking of which, get one of your (other!) white buddies to drive solo through certain Detroit areas, while you drive solo as well. See which gets pulled over first for suspicion of making a drug or hooker purchase.

July 13, 2008 11:44 AM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"It [comparison of the slavery situation in other countries, including African and Arabian, during the time of US slavery] has already been excluded and/or whitewashed in American history studies."

Well, you say the same thing about Reconstruction, which you urge educators to rectify. I support you on that. Do you also support me in calling for these courses to provide the facts of black slavery in Africa and Arabia during this time?

Although I support the consideration of facts regardless of their social impact, I do like how a factual consideration of Reconstruction demonstrates that black folks in the US have a history of thriving, which means making constructive choices and receiving the predictable America rewards.

July 13, 2008 11:48 AM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"How so? Originally you couldn't even vote if you weren't a property owner."

But EVERY MAN COULD OWN PROPERTY! That was a truly revolutionary departure from all European societies, which is why the US got flooded with European surfs, who arrived in the US and found themselves surfs no longer. And then notice how quickly -- in comparison to every other society on the face of the earth, including those in Africa and Arabia -- things progressed.

July 13, 2008 11:51 AM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"But the fact that you, that couple, nor the children who dress that way don't know the origin of the style isn't the point. Teenagers are copying the rappers they admire. The fact that you and that couple don't understand that just means you're old and bourgeois. That you equate the style to race shows your ignorance."

1. I already know the origin of this low form of dressing.

2. The kids and grown folks who dress this way do NOT know its origin. Thus ignorance of its origins cannot derive from being "old and bourgeois", and its practitioners qualify for your characterization of "ignorance."

3. I have not equated this style with race, only with ignorance of civilized and productive conduct. As it happens, though, black youth -- a very stupid and retarded subset of black youth -- are leading this style, and white youth -- an equally stupid and retarded subset of white youth, including nazis and white supremacists --- are following. Lump me please with the countless responsible black folks of all ages who revile this dress and associate it with criminal and other forms of backwards and low behavior.

July 13, 2008 11:57 AM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"Why do you equate poverty with race? In poor rural areas white folks commit more of the crimes that Black folks. Why do you equate crime with race?"

I equate poverty in contemporary US with individual choices. And according to statistics overall, whites are making better choices than blacks today, and Asians are making better choices than whites. The key to improving the outcomes of these choices is improving the rates of smart choices among the individuals composing these groups.

As it happens, white men by huge multiples disproportionately commit serial and mass murders. They also by a significant margin choose to drive while over the drinking limit. The crime stats expose this.

July 13, 2008 12:01 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"I don't like the way your mama dress you either."

I am highly offended that you would bring into this my beloved mother.

July 13, 2008 12:02 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

By trying to pick my piece apart word by word, you're obscuring the original point. Obviously, you didn't get it.

I'm sorry you can't understand how a man like me could have these feelings. You and I have argued many of these points many times over the years, and you are still just as incapable of seeing my point of view. I don't know if this is my failure to explain or your failure/refusal to put yourself in the shoes of another.

At any rate, you prove you are incapable of understanding or unwilling to accept the viewpoint of a person who gets asked every day if I'm Jamaican or if I play reggae because of my hair.

And that's okay. You won't understand it because you don't wear your hair like this.

You don't understand what it is like to have Black skin because you don't have it. I don't understand what it's like to have white skin, and I won't try.

I will try to empathize and attempt to put myself in your shoes, but ultimately, I can never know what it is like. But this is okay. That is your journey, not my own.

But I won't continue to argue and defend every word I write to you because you don't understand the general tone or meaning of the piece. We're getting bogged down in the semantics when the overall meaning has gone over your head.

But your ignorance of such things is okay. I shouldn't expect you to understand how I feel. I'm simply voicing my feelings that the United States has come a long way and has a long way to go.

You want me to express how far relative to other societies. That isn't the point of the piece. I am not comparing the United States to other countries. I'm comparing it to itself.

That the American Nazi Party is in Westland explains that whether it is one person or a thousand, the ideology still exists here. If one person lives here, but he leads thousands from across the nation, that demonstrates a certain ideology and belief system. It doesn't and won't stop me from doing what I'm doing or being who I am.

That the Nazis operate in secret as the KKK always did only hides their true numbers. This is the point of the secrecy. Is it one guy or a thousand or a million? I can offer no proof because they don't want me know. It is hidden on purpose. For all I know, that could be YOUR PO Box.

Your arguing my every word won't stop me from expressing my feelings. Why do I have to be bound by your brand of logic? You fail to understand or intuit the overall tone or meaning of the piece, so why should I quibble with you over every word? It's a waste of my time and yours. You aren't going to understand me because you refuse to empathize.

I empathize with your resistance because you feel it somehow reflects on white people and the nation you love so much. This is why I said "First of all, white folks get upset when Black people talk about race and discrimination in America." Your comments prove my point. Funny that you don't deny that.

America has come a long way since 1619, but we still have a long way to go before everyone is considered equal here. That is my point, and you expressed that yourself when you said,

"If it's to level the playing field, then you mean to tell me AA must live until 'all minorities are finally considered equal by all Americans'? Well, that'll be never. There will never be a perfect world."

Why do you have to argue with my every word or my way of expressing it, when in fact you agree? Is it just because you like to read yourself in print?

Why is it that you feel you must invalidate my expression because my opinion differs from yours and your bourgeois Black friends?

I didn't say all Black people feel this way. I didn't even say that my way is the only point of view. I said this is how I feel. My feelings are just as valid as yours. That you believe they are not, and that you believe I am crazy demonstrates arguments that have been made against Blacks who have spoken out on racial issues for hundreds of years.

Malcolm X's father was murdered because he was a "crazy nigger" who spoke out against racism in Lansing. Untold numbers of men in the United States had their property stolen or burned down or they were lynched for voicing their beliefs.

The fact that you and I are having this argument demonstrates progress. That you would pick apart my every word because you neither understand nor respect my opinion shows we have a long way to go.

I'm sorry my piece made you feel so uncomfortable. That is why I hesitated to write it. But I had to get those feelings of my chest.

You don't have to agree with me. You don't even have to understand me. I didn't write the piece to make you feel good or bad about America. I wrote it to express my point of view. It isn't the only point of view. I don't even claim that it is the correct point of view. It is only how I see it.

Feel free to see it a different way. I only want you to admit that in America I have a right to see it a different way. Isn't that, after all, what this country is about?

July 13, 2008 12:22 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

"At any rate, you prove you are incapable of understanding or unwilling to accept the viewpoint of a person who gets asked every day if I'm Jamaican or if I play reggae because of my hair."

99.9999% of black folks in the US, and 99.9% of black folks in Jamaica don't know what it's like to wear hair like yours, and would make the same assumption. Why -- and HOW! -- does this assumption bother you? If I wore long honkey hair and a leather coat and pants, the same people would ask if I was in a biker gang or a hard rock band. SO WHAT?

July 13, 2008 12:27 PM  
Blogger Paul Hue said...

I can only imagine the assumptions and questions of the many white guys in the US who wear your style of hair.

July 13, 2008 12:29 PM  
Blogger Nadir said...

"99.9999% of black folks in the US, and 99.9% of black folks in Jamaica don't know what it's like to wear hair like yours, and would make the same assumption. Why -- and HOW! -- does this assumption bother you? If I wore long honkey hair and a leather coat and pants, the same people would ask if I was in a biker gang or a hard rock band. SO WHAT?"

I doesn't bother me. It annoys me, but I wouldn't say I am bothered by these assumptions.

If you had long hair and wore a leather coat, I wouldn't assume you were in a biker gang because I have known too many long haired white guys who weren't in biker gangs. Conversely, I've met a few short-haired white doctors who are in biker clubs.

My philosophy is to not make assumptions or to prejudge people based on appearance because I don't like being prejudged based on my appearance. I'd rather have an open mind about who someone is based on how they act and what they say instead of how they look.

If I expected you to be a certain way because of the way you dress at work, or how you act with your coworkers, I would be wrong about you, Paul. You're a completely different person away from work, and if I judged you on your appearance, I would be completely wrong.

July 13, 2008 1:37 PM  

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